Get Up, and Get Moving....

An opportunity for people of serious and orthodox Catholic faith of the Archdiocese of Milwaukee to share the means to improve their own Churches.

Location: near Milwaukee, Wisconsin, United States

Wednesday, October 18, 2006

How quickly they catch up.

First, WISN Channel 12 offers its Sunday night hit piece. (Congratulations Maureen on being the voice of the opposition!)

Then, Milwaukee magazine has an odd collection of quotes, details, and nice pictures and tried to make it out to be an article about a crisis. The only crisis that article brings to light is in the area of good, investigative journalism. (Note the number of possible auxiliaries who were interviewed.)

Finally, the local rag finally catches up to what you and I have known for months. (And what the heck makes Fr. Joseph Baran and expert on episcopal appointments? Who is Fr. Joseph Baran?)

Oh well, all Tom Heinen needed to do was ask....

In te last thread, Andrew asked about possible replacements for Archbishop Dolan. While I believe that there is more that works against Dolan going to NYC than going for it, speculation is fun. Think of it as starting our Christmas list early.

So, not really predictions, just wishful thinking or some obvious names:

Thomas Paprocki, Chicago
Robert Morlino, Madison
David Zubick, Green Bay
Earl Boyea, Detroit
Blase Cupich, Rapid City

Just some food for wishful thoughts.



Anonymous Anonymous said...

The very fact that Dolan is being mentioned as a candidate, particularly in Rome, suggests that, indeed, his stock is rising and he is on the Cardinalate trajectory.

Will he go to New York? He loves baseball, is in Irish Catholic, and can handle TV pretty well. He also is gregarious enough and has Roman connections. That might not be enough. But remember that Baltimore is open, Detroit is open, and there are always other options.

As for the next Archbishop of Milwaukee, Paprocki is a possibility, but I would think the more likely choice would be the LaCrosse ordinary, Jerome Listecki. He's a canon lawyer, one of the boys (Polish), was mentored by Cardinal George, and is both bright and orthodox, pastoral and kind.

We'll see...

Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would hope that the Church, under Pope Benedict would have more sense than to promote Archbishop Dolan to a place like New York. I would also hope it would take more than a love of baseball, being an Irish Catholic, and his false "charm" on TV to be an archbishop anywhere. He should go back to St. Louis as an auxiliary and run a small parish there and help with confirmations.

Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:25:00 AM  
Blogger Terrence Berres said...

Maybe relenting on that Fribourg degree could induce someone out of retirement.

Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was funny to watch Archbishop Dolan on the news tonight saying that he has his crypt picked at out the cathedral. Is it ture he still drives a car with Missouri plates?

Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

D-I-S-I-N-G-E-N-U-O-U-S. Big word, simple meaning.

Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dis·in·gen·u·ous (dsn-jny-s) KEY


Not straightforward or candid; insincere or calculating: "an ambitious, disingenuous, philistine, and hypocritical operator, who ... exemplified ... the most disagreeable traits of his time" (David Cannadine).
Pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-naïf.

That he is and what the Church needs less of.

Friday, October 20, 2006 9:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I could not agree more. From the first time I heard the fake laugh, I knew this guy was not the person everyone seemed to think he was. He brings a new meaning to the word!
But, does anyone else worry that the devil we don't know could be worse than the bozo we do know?

Friday, October 20, 2006 9:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey all, forgive me if I'm not understanding the meaning correctly, but as a young Catholic in the city, having endured the ridiculous (and continued) behavior of Weakland, I can say firsthand that many of our new vocations are due to AB Dolan. My own new freedoms to be a faithful Catholic are entirely due to his support in this city. Can we not recall that even our Holy Father JPII said he wishes he had done things differently? I for one, will miss Dolan when he surely moves on, because for the young Catholic community, he has brought Jesus back into the Mass, and Rome back into the parishes.

So give the guy a break. He's standing alone out there and doing the best he can. And what I hear from my seminarian friends, the man takes quite a beating and still desires to serve the Church faithfully.

Saturday, October 21, 2006 10:30:00 AM  
Blogger Mike, the Faithful Catholic said...

As for that posting immediately above: I do not find a lot to disagree with. The problem is that the good vocations the have come forth in recent years are in a tough position. One of two things are going to be the case. One, they will feel abandoned when the time comes for ordination and they are assigned to bad pastors, with equally bad staffs. (See my posting about assingments for newly ordained, February 16, 2006). Two, they will feel let down and without backing, even if the are more solid than their pastors, by the fact that there are no changes in the diocesan leadership structures.

I daresay, the only significant positive of the last four years are the vocations that the Archbishop has attracted. But will they survive? Bad seminary, bad pastors, bad curia...I fear for their well-being.

The point is that all indications point to the Archbishop wanting all show (new seminarians) and no substance (no changes in structures). This can be seen as a plan to keep the waters calm so a move up to New York or elsewhere might come to pass. Then what are those good vocations left with? Maybe a good replacement will help us all.

Saturday, October 21, 2006 1:32:00 PM  
Blogger Terrence Berres said...

"... the only significant positive of the last four years are the vocations that the Archbishop has attracted."

Just offhand, there's also the new parish planning process, which starts from the Gospel rather than from a blank piece of newsprint posted on the wall.

Saturday, October 21, 2006 3:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As to the Milwaukee Magazine article, the quote from Dolan responding that the issue of women in the priesthood is like adding a fourth person to the Trinity reveals one great truth with this Bishop: He believe God is male!

Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:14:00 PM  
Blogger Dave said...

He believe (sic) God is male!

The First Person of the Blessed Trinity is the Father, and God chose to be incarnated as a man.

IOW, what's your point?

And if you do have a problem with that, the Episcopal Church welcomes you.

Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think that the Archbishop is disingenuous, I just think he has no clue what to do. When he got here I think he felt the "meat and potato" act along with some "rallying of the troops" was going to turn things around. They're certainly attractive to some people, but the problems in Milwaukee are much deeper than that. I think his desire to be liked is preventing him from making the difficult decisions that have to be made. Now we find the "meat and potato" antics to be old and an Archbishop who can't move beyond it to really fix things around here.

Let's look at the record...celibacy letter, priest alliance, gutted seminary, continuing decline in Mass attendance...I can't see how Rome will look at that and decide New York is the place for him.

His persona would make for a great university president, seminary rector, auxiliary bishop - but an archbishop? I don't know, the jury is still out on that one, we need to see some actual decisions being made (or the continued practice of NOT making decisions) before we can really assess his time in Milwaukee

Sunday, October 22, 2006 5:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Responding to Dave: What' the point? Mike's comment on the MILWAUKEE MAGAZINE article pointed out that there is an "odd collection of quotes...". My point is that the quotes do tell us something about this Bishop. His thinking is not very deep as per the response on the Trinity. By the way, if you really think the first person of the trinity is "Father" and therefore male, your thinking reflects the same depth.

Monday, October 23, 2006 7:25:00 AM  
Blogger Terrence Berres said...

"His thinking is not very deep as per the response on the Trinity."

It's not a response on the Trinity, it's a response on the nature of doctrine.

"By the way, if you really think the first person of the trinity is 'Father'"

I not only think it, I get together with a big bunch of people every Sunday and we all say so.

"and therefore male,"

Did anyone mean that literally, going back to Genesis 1:27?

Monday, October 23, 2006 10:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When Adam & Eve committed the first sin, they bit into the apple because they understood it would give them the wisdom of God. Is believing that God is defined in a man's image not repeating this age old sin?

Monday, October 23, 2006 12:44:00 PM  
Blogger Terrence Berres said...

I'm only working from translation here, but wasn't the original temptation to gain knowledge of good and evil despite God's warning that eating the fruit meant they would die? That isn't obviously equivalent to seeking wisdom.

But to answer your question, no, to aspire to possess a quality of God's is not the same as projecting onto God some quality of mine.

Monday, October 23, 2006 4:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So give the guy a break. He's standing alone out there and doing the best he can. And what I hear from my seminarian friends, the man takes quite a beating and still desires to serve the Church faithfully.

In the business world we say "personnel is policy." Obviously, the Weaklandistas whom Archbishop Dolan had kept on are doing the "work" he wants done. That is an indication of the TRUE Dolan.

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Terrence Berres: I agree: ergo, The first person of the trinity is our creator, not "father" per your "projecting some quality of mine" Therefore Dolan's statement that women can not aspire to be clergy because it would require a fourth person is Dolan's "projecting some quality of (his)" By the way the other part of the MILWAUKEE MAGAZINE article on Sklba's research which was never allowed to come to light of day was that women did participate in the sharing of bread and wine in the early church.

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 7:46:00 AM  
Blogger Mike, the Faithful Catholic said...

OMG. I hope you are not referring to the persistant straw man (or must I say "straw person"), and patently false in its overstatement, legend about deaconesses?


Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:07:00 PM  
Blogger Terrence Berres said...


Here's the passage from the Milwaukee Magazine article (p. 66).

"'Some of the most persuasive, cogent leaders in this archdiocese are women,' Dolan says. 'Women run our schools, our homes.' But the ordination of women, he adds would be like adding a fourth person to the Blessed Trinity. 'There are certain matters of Catholic doctrine that are closed ... and the ordination of women is one of them.'"

You seem to be reading the word "like" out of the paraphrase of what he said.

Tuesday, October 24, 2006 6:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do we really believe that the Father is male? I am not at all a proponent of the illogical and non-theological proposition of "elevating women" because it presumes something that is at its core untrue...

But I digress...Isn't it true that God is Father, but that male and female came after Father? I believe it would be incorrect to say that God is the Father is male, but absolutely correct to say that He is Father, and that the Son is male (that whole incarnation thing). I know this was a great concern for the early Church near the time of Nicea and Chalcedon, and one of the conclusions is that the Father did not suffer with the Son in the crucifixion. Would it then also be correct to say that the Father did not take on maleness when the Son did?

And again, I reiterate: I am a woman, and I am not proposing we alter the Trinity. I just want to be sure we are expressing the Trinity and not our own perception.

Your thoughts?

Friday, October 27, 2006 3:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All of these "logical" arguments about God and the Trinity as if logic can lead us to understanding. The Love of God is a matter of faith and to limit our definition of this love, of this Light from Light, of this gift of God is to "insult" the creation of God. The gift of life is male and female of Ying and Yang of loving one's neighbor and not in an ego centric trip of eliminating all the gifts of creation by identifying God as "male" first, last or eternal.

Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:13:00 AM  
Blogger Terrence Berres said...

See the Catechism 239 on God as Father, and 370 on God's gender.

Wednesday, November 01, 2006 2:54:00 PM  

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